No, they will not obey illegal orders! (UPDATED)

I was forced, against my will, to watch the GOP debate last night. I’m over the whole thing, frankly. Same insults, same platitudes, same canned speeches… I know what the candidates stand for, and I’m sick and tired of hearing them repeat themselves. But Rob wanted to watch, and Scandal wasn’t on, so…

Last night’s debate featured a couple of firsts.

I’m pretty sure no presidential candidate in history has ever referenced his dick during a televised debate. Until last night…

I’m pretty sure the Hairy Hemorrhoid™ never actually admitted to flip-flopping, until last night, that is. Kudos to Megyn Kelly, Bret Baier, and Chris Wallace for not letting him get away with his usual bucket of porcupine dung, and following up with tough questions and video of his flip-floppery, which made him stammer and stutter, and finally admit to… uh… evolving on the issues.

I’m fairly sure his frothing supporters, who previously yelled and screamed about the evolution of President Obama’s views on gay marriage, will give the Hairy Hemorrhoid™ a pass on his waffling, because MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! And PENIS! Or something…

All joking aside, there is something serious that happened at the debate last night that we need to discuss. I’m going to quote the debate transcript here, because it’s critical that readers understand exactly how dangerous and incompetent, as well as deluded about his own power and authority Trump is.

BAIER: Mr. Trump, just yesterday, almost 100 foreign policy experts signed on to an open letter refusing to support you, saying your embracing expansive use of torture is inexcusable. General Michael Hayden, former CIA director, NSA director, and other experts have said that when you asked the U.S. military to carry out some of your campaign promises, specifically targeting terrorists’ families, and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they’ve been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders.

So what would you do, as commander-in-chief, if the U.S. military refused to carry out those orders?

TRUMP: They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me. Believe me.

BAIER: But they’re illegal.

[…]

TRUMP: And — and — and — I’m a leader. I’m a leader. I’ve always been a leader. I’ve never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they’re going to do it. That’s what leadership is all about.

BAIER: Even targeting terrorists’ families?

TRUMP: Well, look, you know, when a family flies into the World Trade Center, a man flies into the World Trade Center, and his family gets sent back to where they were going — and I think most of you know where they went — and, by the way, it wasn’t Iraq — but they went back to a certain territory, they knew what was happening. The wife knew exactly what was happening.

They left two days early, with respect to the World Trade Center, and they went back to where they went, and they watched their husband on television flying into the World Trade Center, flying into the Pentagon, and probably trying to fly into the White House, except we had some very, very brave souls on that third plane. All right?

This is sick, deranged, and misinformed. This is a person who is vying for the most important political position in the world, who wants to be the Commander-in-Chief of our military, and who unequivocally told the audience in a nationally televised debate that the military will follow his UNLAWFUL orders, because he’s such a great leader!

And then I grabbed her tits and made this honking sound, alright?

And then I grabbed her tits and made this honking sound, alright?

And no, targeting civilians, even if they’re related to terrorists, is not a lawful order.

It is an order that is very much illegal, considering possibly having knowledge of a terrorist act is not an offense punishable by death in any civilized country.

And it is an order members of the military will not follow.

The UCMJ states very specifically that members of the military must follow lawful orders.

I remember very clearly sitting in the bay in Basic Training and discussing lawful versus unlawful orders. I remember the Drill Sergeants specifically telling us that not only must we refuse to obey an unlawful order, but we could be legally prosecuted for doing so! I would say murdering civilians kind of qualifies.

The “I was only following orders” defense didn’t work for Nazi assholes, and they won’t work in this country either.

So, no.

He can bloviate all he wants, but the vast majority of service members will give him the finger when instructed to kill civilians just for the fuck of it.

My friend and fellow veteran Danielle has more.

The targeting of civilians is a no-no Mr. Trump. Your blustering about what you would command our military to do, will not translate into actionable orders. You cannot walk around and command Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen, and our Coast Guard, to willfully kill the family members of terrorists. You may think it sounds good with your followers, but IT IS NOT! You would be putting the morals of our military in jeopardy with this type of showing off for the cameras.

Our military members are a proud and honorable group of men and women! Men and women who are willing to give their all! We are not a bunch of mindless drones, that cannot think for ourselves! If you are elected to the presidency, you will have a moral obligation to protect their integrity, the code of conduct, and their moral compass!

I don’t think Trump actually understands the concept of integrity and doesn’t have much of a moral compass, but I get why Danielle is pissed.

The military is not a bunch of weapons Trump’s agenda.

They do not exist to prop up Trump’s situational ignorance.

Any contention that they would simply shut up and follow unlawful and downright savage orders is offensive to every honorable troop who has fought and died to protect and defend the United States.

Fuck you, Hemorrhoid. It ain’t happening!

UPDATE: Apparently, the backlash was a bit much. 

  

42 responses

  1. “Fuck you, Hemorrhoid. It ain’t happening!”

    ^^^ this ^^^

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Ghost Rider 6

    In response to Donald (“Making America Grate Again”) Trump’s belief that the US military would obey any unlawful orders he gave, I say, “Not ‘No’, but ‘Fuck no’!”

    If any of us veterans did not already believe that he has jumped the shark, there should be no question now.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Yes, he’s a pretty scary guy for candidate, and I have to admit the more I see/hear the less I like. Especially telling is the fact that hard core conservative and conservative groups I follow (with the exception of few) are turning their backs on him and begging us to put a different candidate in the GOP so they’re not forced to choose Hillary.

    “It is an order that is very much illegal, considering possibly having knowledge of a terrorist act is not an offense punishable by death in any civilized country.

    And it is an order members of the military will not follow.

    The UCMJ states very specifically that members of the military must follow lawful orders.”

    ^This is why I often think the post of commander in chief should be open only (or at least given preference to) people with military experience, because at least they’d have a clue what they are talking about and what it really means. To put a service member, especially young kids, in the position between following the commander in chief and what they’ve been trained to do is impossible, and frankly, unfair. If he wants an illustration/reminder on how fine this line of judgment can be, perhaps he should watch A Few Good Men.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Thank you for mentioning me dear! I could feel the my pulse in the center of my forehead while I was typing that last night! Have a great weekend 😊

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    1. You and me both! Glad you wrote that!

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  5. I agree that the military will not obey an order to target and kill civilians–related to terrorists or not. However, let’s not forget the indiscriminate bombing of Dresden and the fire-bombing of Tokyo/Yokohama metro areas in which more , mostly civilian, people were killed than at Hiroshima. Those weren’t “military” targets and were targeted specifically for the purpose of demoralizing the enemy and forcing him to surrender. That’s not “targeting” civilian family members, but it WAS “targeting” civilian populations. Part of the reason we improved our weaponry was to not HAVE to target civilians to achieve a victory. I’m certainly not defending Trump. I think he’s a dangerous man who has no business being within shouting distance of the Presidency. Then again, I don’t think he really WANTS to move into the White House. I firmly believe that he wants his good friend Hillary to do so. He can do that by losing the nomination and campaigning as a “3rd Party” candidate as Perot did to draw enough putatively-conservative votes to throw the election to her, or, if he wins the nomination, go completely off the rails to assure that she wins more or less “legitimately.” If it worked twice for Bill, why not once for her?

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    1. Dresden, in particular, was a strategic target that housed many military-industrial enterprises. We weren’t really “targeting” civilian populations per se. The Japanese targets were really more about retaliation than anything, I think. CSIS has a really good piece on why that decision was made.

      As for the Hillary thing… part of me thinks you’re right.

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      1. With regards to the firebombing of Japan, we were targeting civilians. We tested several incendiary bombs, choosing the one deemed most likely to catch civilian structures on fire. It’s a good thing we won, because if we lost it would have been our generals sitting in the paddock. Lemay even acknowledged such.

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    2. The UCMJ, multiple legal precedents, and numerous treaties, have all evolved a bit since Dresden and Hiroshima.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Just like when Reagan ordered Qadafi’s compound bombed and the pilots refused that order too, right guys? Right?

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    1. Seriously? you’re going to compare that to MURDERING FUCKING CIVILIANS? What the hell is wrong with you? Other than the obvious…

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    2. Umm, Qadafi’s daughter was killed. But, apples and oranges. Right? Because fuck Trump.

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      1. You’re a fucking idiot. Did we intentionally target his daughter? No. This is a different situation. Not that it matters to frothing Trumproid retards.

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    3. It was a home. So yeah, she was targeted. As for me being a “fuckin idiot” well, this idiot enjoys your blog , so there’s that. I’d prefer Cruz or Rubio. I’m not a “Trumpoid retard”, though I’m not a detractor that gets the vapors whenever someone points out a problem with their post either. Trump will be the nominee. That’s just math. I will vote for the Republican. Look forward to your post declaring for Trump or Clinton. Keep up the
      good writing.

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      1. No it was a military target. There’s a difference between collateral civilian casualties and ORDERING the murder of specifically civilians. You can enjoy all you want. But when you insinuate that American troops are some kind of mindless murderers, you earn the moniker.

        I will not vote for either. Period.

        Liked by 1 person

    4. Qadafi’s compound was a valid military target. It housed troops which, according to the Geneva Convention, makes it fair game for military strikes. When you hose your troops in a civilian structure, you are responsible for the civilian deaths which follow.

      Liked by 2 people

    5. Wow. A non vote from anti-Trumpers will usher in a Clinton presidency which, we all know will result in the diminishing of the second amendment; the primary focus of your blog. I thought you were a serious proponent of gun rights. My mistake.
      At least you’ll have your dignity. Though I don’t think dignity can protect you and yourfamily.

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      1. Trump was a gun controller – pro assault weapons ban, waiting periods, etc. before he decided he wasn’t. He wants to deprive you of your 2A rights without due process if you somehow wind up on he no-fly list. Tell me again how he would be better? Oh yeah! He wouldn’t. That coupled with his lack of knowledge about foreign policy and macroeconomics makes him dangerous and unpredictable. At least I know I’d be giving my vote to someone I KNOW is dedicated to protecting my rights. It’s not about dignity. It’s about giving someone my vote of confidence. It WILL NOT be Trump.

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    6. How stupid must one BE these days to even CONSIDER a vote for Rubio–the Establishment’s lone man standing, other than Kasich? Your “choice” in this election is between Cruz and Trump and the DNC & media are doing their best to insure it’s Trump. Why do you think that is? It’s because he’s the ONLY remaining GOP candidate that ALL polls say Hillary will beat handily. Trump is her “good buddy” and even attended Chelsea’s wedding bearing a $100K “gift” for the “happy couple.” Chelsea’s husband is the son of yet ANOTHER far-left loon in politics.

      Liked by 1 person

    7. You make many good points. Yet I think you go a bit too far for me. Too many moves in the machine you got going on, respectfully. Trump WILL be the Republican nominee. Math, unless a miracle for my top choice too in Cruz. It’s Clinton VS Trump. What the fuck is wrong lady, pick one! That’s how it works. Jeesh.

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      1. See, here’s the thing. I don’t see the difference between the two.

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      2. And By the way, I think you give up too easily. Cruz is less than 100 delegates behind.

        Liked by 1 person

    8. Ya know who my favorite candidate really is? Who’s EVERY fucking favorite candidate REALLY is? Me. Or themselves. Their perfect peep. I agree with me 100%. Every issue. I. Am. Perfect. And I’m not running so what to do? I guess make a choice and fight to change the direction while in power. The ONLY way to change direction is while in power. One of the other candidates has to win 60% of the remaining delegates. Statistically, that’s nigh impossible. So it’s Trump. Pray he’s not what we all suspect him to be.

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      1. I refuse to give up so badly that I would vote for an authoritarian douche canoe only because he happens to have an R behind his name. He’s dangerous for a lot of reasons – some of which I have discussed here and elsewhere, and some of which I can’t. I consider him more dangerous than Hillary, but I won’t vote for either one. I believe Trump is the end of the GOP.

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    9. End of the GOP? At this point I find I’m asking myself “Is that such a bad thing?” considerable. Trump is like Beavis. Yes. It’s come to this. Keep posting. I do enjoy.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I can’t disagree with that. LOL

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  7. Perhaps not openly, but I seem to recall from my days in politics, it was ALWAYS a dick-size war. . . (evil grin)

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  8. We may not have had a candidate discuss the size of his package in a debate before, but we’ve had at least one President in my lifetime who had a habit of whipping it out for the press. And using the Rose Garden for a latrine.

    Funny part is his name – Johnson. Fits, don’t it?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That I know. El Bee Jay was creepy as shit.

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  9. Nikki, I use to feel kind of bad posting here because I am not really all that intelligent, nor all that educated. After seeing some of the stuff on this subject from one person, I don’t feel quite so bad anymore.
    I will say, I have a son in the U.S Navy and I have spoken to him about this very subject, and am quite confident that no member of our military would follow any illegal order of any kind. They all seem to be quite patriotic and in agreement on this. I have spoken to members of other branches as well to inform this opinion. I can only speculate on the Coast Guard, but guess they feel the same way.
    As for the future of the Republican party, their future is in their own hands, to be determined by who they end up with as a nominee. Time will tell if it is business as usual, or if there is hope for the country’s future. It will be hard for the big shots in power to give up the money.

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    1. Pigpen, I will disagree with you on one thing: you’re VERY intelligent.

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  10. This is utter and complete BS. In the entire time I served I never had instruction in what constituted an illegal or unlawful order. Was what the National Guard did at Waco illegal?

    Is it illegal for someone in a missile silo to fire a warhead knowing it will kill millions if there is no declaration of war? Is it an illegal act for a drone to destroy a house knowing that perhaps a dozen innocents are in the same house? Was it an illegl order to drop shot down an Iran airliner in the Gulf without being absolutely sure it was a threat?

    By the way how can anyone get concerned about the use of torture when no one blinks an eye at the use of nuclear weapons that will kill millions of innocent women and children?

    And the big secret, torture works. It works so well that the military had to cahnge the UCMJ because so many servicemen broke during WWII, Korea and Vietnam under torture. The Germans used it to break every resistance movement that existed, so thoroughly that there were no effective networks in many countries. Resisiantce existed but it was ineffective. The French learned the hard way and broke the Arabs in Algeria till they were sold out by DeGaulle, who came to power by promising that Algeria would be French forever.

    A nation that will honor laws that its opponents won’t are referred to in history books as the late an unlamented nation that used to be.

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    1. Torture aside for a minute. There is a big difference between an order to drone a house knowing a terrorist is inside and perhaps knowing there will be civilian casualties and an order to target someone’s family merely because they’re related. I know I don’t have to explain this! I shouldn’t have to!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Very true, Nicki. Funny how some people don’t understand that. Plus, even McCain, who SHOULD know better, characterizes waterboarding as “torture.” It’s not. “Torture” implies severe damage and pain to one’s person. Waterboarding is NOTHING of the sort. I was “waterboarded” so I’d know what to expect if I was ever captured during the Vietnam War. Uncomfortable? Yes. Scary? Yes. Torture? Not only no but HELL no.

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  11. […] Source: No, they will not obey illegal orders! (UPDATED) […]

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  12. Well said! Reogged. Trump will destroy the Reublic if idiot voters give him the chance. For their sake, I hope they’re all preppers.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. All this talk about Trumproid, Rubio, Kasich & Cruz, makes me wonder What the Hell is Wrong with people. Voting for either the Dumbocraps or Republitards all anyone is doing is perpetuating the control of gov by those lame assed political parties. And that is all it is, power and control for the benefit of a political party and their idealogies. It has nothing to do with “The Good /Benefit of the Country at large or it’s citizens. Citizens have not been represented by any of the aforementioned parties for the last 40 years of better.. And government has not paid attention or followed the Comnstitution for the last 100 years.
    How about this for a thought. Elect someone on their MERITS as opposed to their political party. Can’t be done I’m assuming because there is no one running for the top dog spot with any Morals, Integrity, or Ethics…..
    There are plenty of people that actually file the proper paperwork to run although I’m guessing a lot is so they can say they did it. Last I counted, 453 actually filed the paperwork to run for Pres. Most I’m guessing are as retarded as the Trumperoid.
    Point is there are lots of other parties out there with decent people that are not getting ANY airtime or media attention that would perhaps do very well if they had attention.Example is an interview I saw with Ben Carson, who for all intenst and purposes struck me as the smartes one of the whole lot. Neither Cruz nor Rubio are elegible to run as they ARE NOT NATURAL BORN CITIZENS….https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/natural-born-citizen-and-naturalized-citizen-explained/
    And a lot of them have good sound ideas and a desire to actually FOLLOW the Constitution… Libertarian Party, Independant Party, Constitution Party, Veterans Party and on and on. Our government is toast because of the same old bull passed out by the two parties over and over and the average person is just to damned Stupid /Lazy to educate themselves on their options…..
    Read The Constitution…Know it…. Live it.
    I read somewhere a short time ago that the US is ranked 39th in the world for Freedoms!Thats purely disgusting. Haiti has more freedoms than we presently do……. Especially when it comes to starting a business of any kind. Think about that next time you wander down the street…..
    Take back your freedoms and liberties from an out of control tyranical bunch of phuckwits…. And you can only do that by educating yourself and participating, holding those elected accountable for their decisions and actions…..
    But then that’s just my take on the whole shiteree….
    Keep up the nice work Nicki…
    Semper Fi
    God – Country – Corps
    NS

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “Neither Cruz nor Rubio are elegible to run as they ARE NOT NATURAL BORN CITIZENS”

      You are incorrect on that point. If you feel otherwise, take it to the courts.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. I am heartened, and I believe that the vast majority of our military and police would refuse such illegal orders under the statutes of the UCMJ & Due Process, respectively. However, I can only point out that when leaders like this take power anywhere, they always seem to find at least one person or several people who will follow such orders. Stopping this guy is a must. He may seem a clown, with his outlandish behavior masking reporting of his more serious and dangerous flaws, but people like this are only funny until they get real power. Then they become tragic, and not just for a few.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Agree. Completely.

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  15. Ok, I give up. How did you come up with the HH monicker for Trump?

    My theory is that Trump doesn’t want to be President. However if he drops out as the front runner he loses all credibility forever. So he is saying anything he can think of to be forced out so he can save some face. He’s probably thinking to himself “What the hell do I have to say to get out of this thing?”

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    1. Well, part of it was the hair. And the other part of it was that he’s such a pain in the ass.😉

      Liked by 1 person

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