This is what I mean (With “Amazing” Update)

When I wrote the other day that those who consider themselves the gatekeepers and elders in Science Fiction and Fantasy did not and still do not want any kind of real “reconciliation” with the Science Fiction fans known as the Sad Puppies, this is what I meant. The wonderful Kate Paulk addressed several issues on the entry on Brad’s blog I mentioned the other day, and she and I are in synch.

I’ve heard through the Internet (all right, Facebook) that someone who fancies himself a big shot in the field has “offered” to stop claiming Sad Puppies 4 is all things evil in return for a few “reasonable concessions” on our part.

Since the person in question hasn’t bothered to make this offer to me, Sarah Hoyt, or Amanda Green, Sad Puppy supporters can reasonably assume that the so-called offer is not actually genuine.

“Reasonable concessions?” Fuck you.

sad puppiesThe Sad Puppies weren’t the ones calling others Nazis, racists, misogynists and other choice epithets.

The Sad Puppies weren’t the ones blowing up entire categories at the Hugo awards ceremony, merely because they did not want deserving candidates supported by the wrong kind of fans to win.

The Sad Puppies weren’t the ones prancing around, offensively giving out ASSterisks.

They certainly weren’t the ones spreading lies and misinformation.

And after all of that, the self-proclaimed protector of all that is right and good (only in the eyes of the “right” kind of fans) excuses the name-calling and vile accusations (Oh, come on! The name-calling was ignorable, and “pretty funny, actually”!) by claiming that the Sad Puppies “pissed [him] off,” and all the Sad Puppies really had to do was “First – give us some real indication that SP and RP are not ‘riding in the same car’. Second – drop the final stage of the SPIV effort. Leave it as a pure recommendation list. (It will save Kate a lot of work to boot.)”

And in return, said self-proclaimed protector of all that is right and good in TruFandom will refrain from attacking the Sad Puppies for a whole two weeks! Well, Jesus Christ on a Fucking Popsicle Stick! How noble and magnanimous of him!

Who the fuck do you think you are, shitstick? Prove to me that you’re not the Nazi misogynist racists we’ve repeatedly accused you of being without a shred of proof, quit nominating works you actually like, and I’ll stop attacking you for two weeks? Go sodomize yourself with a cactus dipped in battery acid!

Now, you see why I find George R. R. Martin’s essay claiming that the other side wants reconciliation to be disingenuous at best?

Kate’s response is exactly what mine would have been – with a lot fewer swear words.

We do not care what the creators’ politics are. We do not care what the posters’ politics are. We care that people who love science fiction and fantasy have a place to build an awesome list of recommended reading/viewing/listening/artwork for 2015. We care that lots of people become involved in the Hugo Award process. Nobody is excluded from Sad Puppies 4. Anybody can participate or not as they choose. The recommendations will not vanish. Every recommendation will be in the final list. There’s no “gatekeeping” going on here, and no litmus test for participation…unlike the ultimatums being “offered” to the Sad Puppies.

When the final list is announced, we’ll post the top 10 for each category, whatever those might be, and link to the full list. Nothing will be hidden or secret. Anyone who wants to will be able to reconstruct the list from the recommendations posted here (I don’t suggest anyone actually does this. It’s tedious and time-consuming and I really should have written an application to do the grunt work for me. Hindsight is ever perfect).

Finally, we will not be publicly dissociating or associating Sad Puppies 4 from/with anyone. Anyone can make recommendations and everyone’s recommendations will have exactly the same weight as everyone else’s. Nobody will be asked to nominate or vote in line with the list. That’s been the policy from the start, and it’s been what I’ve said from the start.

If the person claiming to have made an offer had actually contacted me, this is exactly what I would have told him with or without his so-called “Puppy moratorium”.

You want reconciliation? Recognize that the fiasco of last year was a slap in the face to a lot of fine folks who work in the field. Admit it. Stop painting the Sad Puppies with the broad brush of your hatred. Vote for works, authors, editors, and other producers in the field who deserve to win – regardless of who recommends them.

And most of all, stop being arrogant, supercilious, self important fuck weasels. Your “offer of reconciliation” is condescending, insolent crap, and I’m glad Kate gave you the well-deserved middle finger, asshole.

UPDATE: So apparently the arrogant, supercilious asshole is also a coward. A comment on Kate’s blog, which she hardly ever uses, popped up this morning with the following, which Kate copied in its entirety to the Sad Puppies 4 page.

Ms. Paulk,

you asked for “demands” to be sent directly to you, so I will comply:

But I will only do it in a comment on a site you barely ever use. Sad Puppies 4 gets more traffic, and dog forbid he post it there.

It is my considered belief that Sad Puppies can help repair the divide within fandom by taking two actions:
1. make your SPIV recommendation list a real recommendation list, similar to others that are perceived as recommendation lists (as opposed to slates) by dropping your final stage of compiling a “top ten”.
2. make it clear that Sad Puppies are not aligned with Rabid Puppies.

My side attacked good people, made false claims, overtly and subversively offended and made false accusations against fans, authors, and editors, and submarined talented people in the field, but YOU Sad Puppies are the problem! YOU Sad Puppies are guilty! YOU Sad Puppies need to conform to what I demand and what I judge to be a recommendation list, because I’m the arbiter of all light and good in SF/F. YOU Sad Puppies need to prove to ME that you are not what we have repeatedly accused you of being!

You and other Sad Puppies have repeatedly claimed that your lists are recommendations (‘like what Scalzi does every year’).  However, they are not once you add that final stage of endorsement.  Drop that final stage and no reasonable person would consider it anything other than what you claim you want it to be.

Kate’s response was the following – everything she has said before, but apparently Mr. Amazing has reading comprehension issues.

And, just so there is no doubt about any of this: Sarah, Amanda, and I will be doing exactly what I said we were doing in yesterday’s post. We will not accede to anyone’s demands. We will not prevent anyone from making recommendations. We will not associate ourselves with any other group and we will not dissociate ourselves from any other group. We are compiling a list of the works people think are the best in their class and eligible for the 2016 Hugo Awards. Nothing more and nothing less.

But apparently, that’s not good enough. Sad Puppies MUST clearly address the false accusations against them, because Steve-o says so.

You and other Sad Puppies have also claimed that SP and Rabid Puppies are not one and the same, yet we see plenty of commentary that strongly suggests otherwise.  A statement by the leaders of SP IV  to the contrary would go a long way.

Oh, commentary like the hatchet job Entertainment Weekly had to correct? You mean like Irene Gallo’s nasty, repugnant “nazi” claim?

Fuck you, Steve. Pulling out accusations from your ilk and claiming that as evidence that commentary suggests SP and RP are one and the same is a transparent attempt to malign a whole lot of people who not only find racism to be repugnant and sick, but also spent a lifetime fighting it.

Those are the two things that I believe would place Sad Puppies in a far better position in regards to acceptance within fandom as a whole.  Doing those two things would lend far greater credence to your other arguments vis-a-vis the field.

Steve

There you have it, boys and girls. Steve doesn’t consider Sad Puppies real fans, and not only that but he’s apparently the arbiter of who receives what position in fandom as a whole.

Read Kate’s response, dick. That’s all you’re going to get.

40 responses

  1. And now, George “Rape Rape” Martin has announced that the latest book in the “Song of Rape and Murder” series is delayed.

    Which, of course, will be blamed on us Puppies, instead of Jabba, just because he prefers rolling naked in his royalties from HBO, rather than do his fucking job, which is write novels. . .

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Meh. I’m one of a few people who find his work tedious. Just not my thing.

      And that visual is GAGTASTIC!

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  2. If the prevaricator would actually read what people write it would be quite obvious to him there is a decided difference between SP and RP that both groups claimed.

    “The Sad Puppies are not Rabid.” From the fingertips of their devil living in their heads.
    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2015/04/of-lew-and-hugo.html

    “We are not Rabid Puppies. Larry and I are not Vox Day.” From Brad.
    https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/we-are-not-rabid/

    “The Sad Puppies 3 campaign is a separate and different entity than the Rabid Puppies campaign.” From Larry.
    http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/16/im-not-vox-day/

    I realize that reading comprehension isn’t everybody’s thing. But if you are claiming to not only be influential in a field based upon the written word, and are supposedly publishing a SF/F magazine, it better be pretty farging high on your abilities. Since he continues spewing his lies it can only be because he’s a dishonest shitbag.

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    1. No, see that’s not good enough! Larry, Brad and Vox are lying liars who lie! Kate, Amanda, and Sarah need to prostrate themselves in front of the Arbiter of TruFandom and beg and plead like the accused witches in front of Torquemada.

      What a fucking douche!

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    2. I’m pretty sure that while he says that they need to make a statement declaring that they are not affiliated with Vox and his RP, what he actually means is that they have to throw out any crossover nomination suggestions, since that’s what they mostly used as evidence that the two groups were collaborating last year.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. ‘unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic’ – Well, there you have it. None of us can possibly be anything other than prejudiced old farts who can’t bring ourselves to understand the travails of those who are ‘OTHER’.

    Excuse me for being who I am. No, never mind. Don’t excuse me. Fuck off.

    The whole point to sci-fi and fantasy was to open up the imagination, create unknown worlds and universes, and let ‘er rip. Heinlein did that with the real Martians – Gekko and Willis and the Old Ones – and with Kip and Peewee finding themselves outside this galaxy in a courtroom so massive, you couldn’t see the walls. And they faced unknown ‘OTHER’ species who were there to judge them as well as Wormface and his/her/its species.

    As far as I’m concerned, these butthurt whiners would complain if they were offered the keys to the kingdom. It’s all about power and control and not much else.

    This is all a good reason to stay the course as an indie writer. I think I can manage my brilliant career without getting involved in that preposterous nonsense.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Davidson can demand all the concessions he wants, but he isn’t the official spokesperson for the entire Puppy Kicker side. He’s not their leader even. He’s a guy with a blog that lags behind According to Hoyt and Monster Hunter Nation in rankings…and MHN is only updated sporadically, so that should tell you something. He’s in no position to negotiate.

    He thinks we Puppies want acceptance by the TrueFen. What he’s missed is that we no longer care about them and their little club. We like the genre, and we’re fans of the genre, and we don’t need their validation. Especially since a lot of us are have had validation in our lives in a thousand different ways.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Regardless of what ‘we’ do, we’ll never be accepted as truefans… Screw ’em all…

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  6. LOL

    So who died and made him heir to the ASPsie throne?

    In the meantime, us ‘not true fans’ went out and did fannish things as a family, supporting someone who was very clearly a fan who loved fannish things.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. […] OF SF/F FANDOM: This is what I mean (With “Amazing” Update).  (And that link is to The Liberty Zone, so language warnings are in effect, though Nicki uses […]

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  8. “Sad Puppies? Things got a little out of hand. It’s just this war and that lying son of a bitch Vox and… I would never hurt you. You know that.”

    Like

  9. The descriptor “Officious Prick” comes to mind. Although it really isn’t harsh enough, it’s all I can come up with on short notice.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I’ve taken to labeling him “fascist fuckwad extrodinaire” in my head.

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      1. You can do it IRL here.🙂. We certainly like the language!

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  10. — Your “offer of reconciliation” is condescending, insolent crap, —

    It’s even worse than that: It’s a probe, to see whether:
    1. We “wrongfans” can be bought off, and for how much;
    2. We’re smart enough to realize that we’d be reinforcing a bad behavior — the vilification we receive — by assigning it a value.

    Kate’s response was exactly right.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I have trouble believing even Davidson can be so dumb as to think anyone in this movement would fall for it. “Repent, and I will stop insulting you!”

      AYFKM???

      Liked by 1 person

    2. everlastingphelps

      In the framework of Anonymous Conservative’s r/K evolutionary psychology theory, this “offer” is entirely expected. He’s giving up what he thinks would be appealing — because a rabbit would jump on that offer.

      1) Retreat from your position and run
      2) Betray your in-group

      Those two things are inherent in (r)abbit behavior. They are biological imperatives that they can resist only by constant negative reinforcement.

      They think that is the best offer, because it is the offer they would want. They can’t even conceive of how a (K)wolf thinks.

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  11. I expect these calls for “reconciliation” to come more often and become more desperate as these gatekeepers continue to lose their grip. Each year the SPs have gotten stronger and now others (like the RPs) are joining in.

    They (the gatekeepers) are losing power and they can feel it, although they won’t admit it, even to themselves. A kinder person might feel bad for them, but no one’s ever accused me of an excess of kindness.

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    1. curmudgeoninchief

      The PuppyBlenders are not losing power, they are consolidating power over the Hugos. And as with most leftist power consolidations, they are losing legitimacy and credibility. That is why they are “reaching out”.

      Won’t change things much, but they may find their legitimacy is so eroded that Important People stop paying attention to them. Which sounds like a good idea anyway.

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    2. So the Puppies haven’t increased the number of their participants each year? They haven’t managed to put more of their nominations on the ballot each year? They haven’t made such a noise that now many others are getting involved? None of that’s happening? I just hallucinated it all?

      Sorry, but this is a case where you’re asking me if I’m going to believe you, or my lying eyes, and I’m gonna go with my eyes.

      Liked by 2 people

  12. Hey, where can I get one of those cactus dipped in battery acid? That sounds kinda hot!

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    1. I’ll sell you one. Cheap! LOL

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      1. A cactus dipped in ricin would be more effective

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  13. This SJW shit is why I stopped buying Sci/Fi books. That PC bullshit oozes out of pretty much everything now. Used to be you could buy a book and not be propagandized…its gotten to the point that I just stopped buying books because I couldn’t tell who was going to spout SJW PC crap at me…Sad Puppies/Rabid Puppies go a long way to turn this around…but until you beat assholes like Steve into submission, lots of people like me will vote w/our wallets…by not spending $$$ at all.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I miss Asimov, Heinlein, Piper and a host of others. With the absolute crap being published today it is remarkable that the genre is still financially viable. Look at Martin — bad comic book fiction for the nearly illiterate.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I’ve never gotten into his writing. It bored the crap out of me. Hated the series too.

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  14. Dear Mr. Davidson, to quote WWI Marine officer, Lloyd Williams, 2/5 Marines, ‘Retreat? Hell, we just got here!’

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Dear Mr. Davidson, to quote Major Lloyd Williams, 2/5 Marines, ‘Retreat? Hell, we just got here!’

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  16. curmudgeoninchief

    Re: PuppyDom et al.:

    Can’t take anything the PuppyBlenders AKA SJW Asshats say personally, even if they mean it personally, which many of the less mature among them do. This is merely and solely about political power.

    It is not about right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, or even quality vs. dreck, it is only about who gets to make the labels and who gets to affix them to the works of SF. The Hugos are gone; forget the Hugos. The SJW types have a death grip on them and, barring a revolution from the floor at the Convention, nothing will change that.

    What Puppies4 and its descendants can do is the job the Hugos used to do: give readers feedback on what a large number of motivated readers think is good stuff, absent as much political crap as possible. And the publishers can use this information too.

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  17. I love to own one of those acid dipped cacti, but only if it was grown in soil from within a half mile of the Chernobyl reactor site. When quality counts, it’s the only way to be sure

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Yup. Don’t argue their points; it only validates their existence. Contempt and profanity is the only proper response for these self-fellating tyrant wanna-bes.

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    1. They don’t have points.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Nicki – not even on the tops of their heads?

      Liked by 1 person

  19. It’s interesting that Marrin once wrote a pretty good set of stories collected in Tuf Voyaging. At least it was an interesting hypothesis not based upon some silly magic.

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  20. So the next step is to institute the “Puppies” award for quality works of SF.

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    1. That’s been proposed, but it has a danger attached: subversion. SJWs and Leftists generally target formal organizations, because any formal organization offers a route to power. That’s why they targeted the Hugos and Worldcon. If a popular alternative were to spring up, they’d set their sights on it as surely as the Sun will rise in the East.

      Remember Robert Conquest’s Second Law of Politics: “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.” It’s been confirmed too many times to harbor a serious doubt of it.

      Liked by 1 person

  21. Dear Sir: Thank you for your kind suggestions on how Sad Puppies might abandon our principles for a few kind words. We’ll give your thoughts the consideration they deserve. Meanwhile, perhaps you’d be amenable to reciprocal suggestions?

    1. Lifetime limit on awards given to a single person, set at one fewer than whatever number Patrick Nielson Hayden has won.

    2. Eliminate “No Award.” Even in a crappy pool, somebody is the best.

    3. Quit dicking around with the rules hoping to stack the deck in your favor. This isn’t the junior high AV club.

    4. Whatever additional ideas Nicki, Kate, Sarah and Amanda may have – they’re smart ladies who understand why this revolt happened and why it’s continuing, so they’re well situated to propose measures to end it. Adopt those measures at once.

    Sincerely yours,

    Liked by 1 person

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